Part 2
Can you talk about a breakthrough work, event or performance in your career? Why does it feel special to you? When, why and how did you start working on it, what were some of the motivations and ideas behind it?
CK: I was sitting in Willie Nelson’s studio outside of Austin, Texas when This Will Destroy You had just laid down the track “The Mighty Rio Grande.” It was the first time I got chills from listening to something we had made and it brought about such a power that is indescribable. It happened so organically and I think that is what made it so special. Also, John Congleton not speaking for 2 minutes after made me realize that we had done alright. Ha.
[Read our John Congleton interview]
CT: My string orchestra work with A Far Cry was like that. It became my album “Thunder Lay Down in the Heart”. So many amazing moments came of it, first and foremost working with such high calibre musicians, watching them really dissect the music and bring their own ideas to it. Getting to live process the string orchestra. Getting to perform the work with them in both concert halls and packed clubs side by side with my more post-rock work for the same audience, really sharing my vision of music in a way no one else has, and at scale.
There are many descriptions of the ideal state of mind for being creative. What is it like for you? What supports this ideal state of mind and what are distractions? Are there strategies to enter into this state more easily?
CK: It’s all about balance - but that is easier said than done. I have written music on the verge of suicide and I’ve written music completely elated and on-top of the world. I have been diagnosed as bipolar as a teenager and music has saved my life. It’s been the most important outlet. It’s also been a blessing and a curse.
At the end of the day its 100% about being true to yourself and letting it shine. If you help one person through something you’ve been through it’s worth it.
CT: Ideally I’ll be alone the entire day and night and work in short spurts, an hour or so, then take a break for food or coffee to digest it all, then head back to it. Keep things fresh but persistent. By the time I need to sleep I’ve put in like 11 hours or something.
But I don’t need special circumstances to compose really. I think if you’re serious you need to be able to just drop right into it when you get a gap in the day. Being too precious about it all is for dilettantes.
Music and sounds can heal, but they can also hurt. Do you personally have experiences with either or both of these? Where do you personally see the biggest need and potential for music as a tool for healing?
CK: Music has saved my life. I have had songs / artists that have pulled me through some really dark times. Liz from Grouper as an example has been such a catalyst over the years to help me rough through the dips. I think music absolutely has the means to heal and mend. Music being a universal language has the scope to reach and affect anyone - within that holds undeniable power. It’s been going on since the beginning of time.
I’ve been active in participating and creating music for sound baths / meditation. As corny as some of the new age movement can be (no offense new age peeps) I’ve seen it completely transform people and situations. Music is the ultimate bridge and communicator.
CT: For me, the most hurtful thing is just cultural mindlessness. There’s a lot of tracks sprayed everywhere that are basically just designed to be memes. Stupid sensational lyrics with a short hook or beat that will stick in your brain but isn’t musically satisfying. For some reason people think if music is memorable it’s good, but getting punched in the jaw is memorable …
Most culture seems to be converging toward advertising; they just need that shit in your head, even if it rots it out. Anything can be healing if it’s made with sensitivity and care, free of material agenda.
There is a fine line between cultural exchange and appropriation. What are your thoughts on the limits of copying, using cultural signs and symbols and the cultural/social/gender specificity of art?
CK: This is a tough question. It’s hard to have an overt opinion when I’m on the inside looking in. As a white cis male making music for awhile I don’t think I can begin to understand how difficult it has been for my friends who are POC, LGTBQ +, women, being taken seriously in the music scene. It has been such a toxic part of how the industry exists and it is encouraging to see a direct change of acceptance and love. I hope it continues in that direction.
CT: Artistic expression never exists in a vacuum. Also, every work can be read through multiple lenses. A listener attributes meaning to a work by ascribing some “intent” to what they are hearing but it’s true amateur thinking to assume this is the “intent” of the creator or that the creator’s intent even really matters. A work can be insensitive to the time and place where it is made regardless of its creator’s good intentions. Likewise, history is littered with shitty humans making beautiful work that illuminated real truths in our human experience.
Art is about taking things personally but be sensitive to the multiple ways things can be taken personally. Your way is not the only way.
Our sense of hearing shares intriguing connections to other senses. From your experience, what are some of the most inspiring overlaps between different senses - and what do they tell us about the way our senses work?
CT: I’m going to let CK talk about the rich area of music and visual art’s synergy.
I will say that synesthesia in the arts has become a bit of a cliché. I’m not particularly interested in it but hey, all my musical compositions tend to smell the same. The one artist I personally knew that actually suffered from synesthesia confirmed what I’d always suspected: if you really have this shit it’s often annoying to the point of debilitating. Weird senses pop up inappropriately when you don’t want them to. I’m sure there are perks but I’m interested in more accessible experiences, myself.
CK: From my own experience, working on a musical score for a restaurant really challenged myself to bridge those gaps. I’ve had the honor of making music for my dear friend Jordan Kahn and his restaurant, Vespertine. His commitment to integrating sound with food as experience has been inspiring to say the least. The process of creating and being involved in an idea this grandiose has been challenging and rewarding. From all of my traveling over the years - food has always been what I have remembered from places around the world. It’s amazing to have the opportunity to express that through music.
Art can be a purpose in its own right, but it can also directly feed back into everyday life, take on a social and political role and lead to more engagement. Can you describe your approach to art and being an artist?
CK: I think they are one in the same. They both feedback into each other. They are both a response to each other. It’s almost a response to have life mimic music/art based. Sound/ art are such a unifying force.
CT: I’d like to be an artist where my artistic practice is just completely integrated into the rest of my life. The same values I use when I sit down to compose I hope to share throughout the rest of my day: intellectual curiosity, recognizing and celebrating passionate moments, acknowledging life’s darker truths, a celebration of little gestures, a relentless desire to find the form of things. I’m trying to be my own work in progress.
What can music express about life and death which words alone may not?
CK: I just went through the passing of my grandfather this past week and playing classical guitar for my grandpa was the one way I could communicate with him as he was in hospice. I know it was something he loved to hear and his response to me playing for him - even though it was subtle - is something I will keep with me forever. To me this really signifies the power of music as a unifier.
CT: Music touches our most sensual places. Perhaps our entire culture is based on impulses derived from the “primal brain” that music speaks to. Music is a language native to our emotional centers yet, with care, we can also use it to express rich patterns of the most ingenious design. If we know anything of life and its absence, it will be found there.
