Name: WAAN
Members: Bart Wirtz (saxophone), Emiel van Rijthoven (keys)
Interviewee: Bart Wirtz
Current release: WAAN's full-length debut Echo Echo, co-produced by Oscar de Jong, is out February 24th 2023 via Sonar Kollektiv.

If you enjoyed this interview with WAAN and would like to find out more about the band's music, visit the WAAN on Instagram. You might also enjoy our conversation with the band about collaboration.



When did you first start getting interested in musical improvisation?
 
I grew up with the record collection of my father; classical music, pop and jazz. One of my favorites was a Cannonball Adderley record called "Jubilation".



That sound of the horn and it’s inner urge made me want to play the saxophone, made me want to play this music. That led from one thing to another.

Which artists, approaches, albums or performances involving prominent use of improvisation captured your imagination in the beginning?

The versatile record collection made me curious about all sorts of musical styles from the Police to Bach, from John Coltrane to hiphop - I even wanted to play bagpipes in the beginning until my mother said that no one is teaching bagpipes. Dream over.

For me improvisation is a way to play, the musical style is just a landscape to play on top of.

Focusing on improvisation can be an incisive transition. Aside from musical considerations, there can also be personal motivations for looking for alternatives. Was this the case for you, and if so, in which way?

Improvisation gives you freedom to create your own world. In the beginning you’re mainly focussed on copying solos from great players, play their licks, copy their timing etc. But when you start to learn more about your own identity, new ways of playing start to emerge.

I still still enjoy the endless possibilities of creating my own musical landscapes through improvisation. It comes simultaneously with things in life, it reflects anger, sadness, boredom and all other different sorts of emotion.

What, would you say, are the key ideas behind your approach to improvisation? Do you see yourself as part of a tradition or historic lineage?

I think that musical talent comes in different forms. I see players with an enormous amount of technique, something I can only dream of. So their approach to playing music will always be different to mine. I’ll always try compensate my weaknesses with a certain amount of study (if there’s time ... that’s another thing). When I practice, I try to incorporate long tones, for sound, and some technical exercises, as a sort of saxophone yoga to start the day with.

When it comes to improvisation, you got to have a library of musical vocabulary to express yourself. I work on this; new ideas, new patterns, new sounds. When you’re done practicing this, it will automatically enter your playing one day.

I started out by learning jazz. The first records I did were with those musicians I admired on the scene. I got a chance to record with some of the best players from the states, like Nicholas Payton and Kendrick Scott.



That gave me an enormous boost and musical insight. At this point, and certainly with WAAN, the most fun is that we can do ANYTHING. Incorporate all our crazy ideas, draw from my musical experiences in the past, experiment with electronics in our own studio, etc.

Tell me about your instrument and/or tools, please. How would you describe the relationship with it? What are its most important qualities and how do they influence the musical results and your own performance?

I play alto saxophone. I tend to play more tenor-like, although I have a tenor and it doesn’t really appeal to me as a main instrument.

For the upcoming WAAN record Echo Echo I used a lot of external equipment for my sax: I play with an extra piezo element in the neck of my horn which is connected to some vintage gear, like the Gibson Maestro W2 Sound System for Woodwinds, a device from the late 60s. If I put this in a chain with the Roland RE-501 Chorus Echo, the sound is huge and amazing.

For live, I made a more playable set-up with delays, reverbs and a harmonizer. It makes you play differently although for me it’s always important to recognize the saxophone in it.

Can you talk about a work, event or performance in your career that's particularly dear to you? Why does it feel special to you? When, why and how did you start working on it, what were some of the motivations and ideas behind it?

The first group where I played with effects on my horn was Monsieur Dubois.



After we disbanded that group, I started focusing more on traditional jazz with some recordings I did (Prologue, iDreamer and Interview). On those last two recordings I played with some of the most outstanding improvisators in the world and that gave me an enormous boost. The open and energetic way of the group on iDreamer and the intense and incredible playing of trumpeter Sean Jones on Interview ... Man! Great lessons.



With my latest record I tried to find more connections to others musical styles. We incorporated hip hop with the amazing Soweto Kinch. I also worked with the percussion and electronic master BinkBeats. All those styles and musicians opened new windows to the place we are now.



How do you feel your sense of identity influences your collaborations? Do you feel as though you are able to express yourself more fully in solo mode or, conversely, through the interaction with other musicians? Are you “gaining” or “sacrificing” something in a collaboration?

I definitely gain in a musical collaboration. This is what music is all about: communication with your fellow musicians and the audience.

For me it’s always hard to find a daily discipline to get to practicing on you own. The moment I step on stage, I feel the energy floating.

Derek Bailey defined improvising as the search for material which is endlessly transformable. Regardless of whether or not you agree with his perspective, what kind of materials have turned to be particularly transformable and stimulating for you?

I totally agree on this. The past 6 years have been a search. We built a beautiful studio, I started producing for other artists and did a lot of composing for others but also my saxophone quartet Artvark.



In the meantime I was struggling to find a new sound in music that I wanted to explore. The making of WAAN toke us 6 years. This had everything to do with finding the right sound in our compositions but also improvisations. The music that feels right is the one that transforms with you on a personal level as well.

When you're improvising, does it actually feel like you're inventing something on the spot – or are you inventively re-arranging patterns from preparations, practise or previous performances?

Both. The vocabulary that you own comes out in different ways. Maybe something that I have been practicing a long time ago comes out in a solo. Maybe a pattern that I play more often, comes out in a different swing or time feel. Maybe a mistake, or slip on a sax key, creates the most interesting sound. Maybe I just close my eyes, play one long tone, and put as much emotion in it, like a singer does. Maybe I think of a waterfall and try to imitate that on the horn. Maybe I hear Emiel play this wild chord on the keys and Mark Schilders play this crazy rhythm on his drums, and try to answer this musically.

It’s a world in itself that can be difficult to grasp in a couple of rules.

To you, are there rules in improvisation? If so, what kind of rules are these?

There are some basics for every player I guess: practice, practice. Learn from your heroes, copy their solos. Study technique and tone.

For me an important measure is also to listen to singers, because of their way of letting their emotions come through in the voice. Look for that urge to speak up.

In a live situation, decisions between creatives often work without words. How does this process work – and how does it change your performance compared to a solo performance?

The communication with the fellow bandmembers is crucial for all the things that happen. A change of chords, rhythm or melody can influence the other players in an instant.

The condition is to always listen to the others.

There are many descriptions of the ideal state of mind for being creative. What is it like for you? In which way is it different between your solo work and collaborations?

I try to create a morning ritual by focussing on ‘head’ stuff. So practicing technique, answering my 167 unanswered emails, drinking coffee and paying bills.

The best ideas for new music come most of the time on the bike or during a walk. Sometimes I just play the horn during night hours in my studio and ideas come too. I take these ideas and bring them to Emiel, then we work and expand on them, make demos and finally bring it to a rehearsal with the group. We also leave a lot of loose ends in order to get feedback and input of the other band members.

How do you see the relationship between sound, space and performance and what are some of your strategies and approaches of working with them?

I always try to let sound and space work for me as tools. The saxophone has so many options with sound, such as growls, whispering and bending of notes. You can incorporate these elements and leave as much or little space as you like. Whatever happens in that space is also part of the music.

Also I like to implement series of notes or sounds that are not typical, such as playing with overtones. The palet that comes out is again so much different and gives me a broader range to perform with.

In a way, improvisations remind us of the transitory nature of life. What, do you feel, can music and improvisation express and reveal about life and death?

That's a good one …

Everybody wants their best performance, their best solo on a recording. Sometimes we play live and then realize: “Man, we should have recorded this” A recording is permanent and therefore you want to leave the best of yourself.

But for me, it’s a precious journey to strive for the same state of mind that I have during a gig. The idea that my playing will be over in a minute, can make you loose and relaxed. This will result in great moments. It has also to do with being relaxed. If you are able not to think about the result but see the journey as the main goal … you’re there.

But you know… it is a struggle .. always.