Name: Mark Holub
Occupation: Drummer, composer
Nationality: American
ANTHROPODS band members: Clemens Sainitzer (cello), Irene Kepl (violin), Susanna Gartmayer (bass clarinet), Jakob Gnigler (tenor sax)
Current release: The sophomore ANTHROPODS album Abundant Shores is out via Klanggalerie.
Recommendations: Since we are talking about improvisation I enjoyed recently The Art of Becoming: How Group Improvisation Works by Raymond MacDonald and Graeme Wilson. I also really enjoyed a gig by Fünf with Christian Reiner recently ...

If you enjoyed this Mark Holub / ANTHROPODS interview and would like to know more about and stay up to date with his music, visit his official homepage or the ANTHROPODS website. He is also on Instagram.

If you'd like to keep reading, we also have an earlier Mark Holub interview.



Do you think that some of your earliest musical experiences planted a seed for your interest in improvisation?
 
Yes, my real entry to music was through improvisation. As a teenager, while technically very limited, I spent many hours with my good friend John Hoyt, and a cast of other characters improvising.

I can’t really remember what it sounded like, and there were certainly also early attempts at playing jazz amongst these sessions, but I definitely remember many sessions where we would turn on the strobe light and just go for it.
 
When did you first consciously start getting interested in musical improvisation? Which artists, teachers, albums or performances involving prominent use of improvisation captured your imagination in the beginning?
 
In my early days playing I got into bands like the Grateful Dead, which then lead on to discovering more avant-rock things, like Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart, but also lead me towards jazz.

I had a teacher in high school, Tom Gotwals, who helped get me into a lot of this music at that time, and probably without him I wouldn’t have ended up going down the road that I did.
 
Tell me about your instrument and/or tools, please. What made you seek it out, what makes it “your” instrument, and what are some of the nost important aspects of playing it?
 
I am not really into the specifics of the instrument, and as I have gotten older, I am pretty much happy with playing anything. I mean, I love when I turn up at a venue and there is a beautiful drumset there, and everything is perfect, but it’s also sometimes ok when the kit is terrible. It’s about adapting as a player to the idea of what sounds you have available on the night.

But as to why the drums specifically are my instrument, it just felt and feels right, hard to really say much more than that!
 
How would you describe your own relationship with your instrument – is it an extension of your self/body, a partner and companion, a creative catalyst, a challenge to be overcome, something else entirely?
 
The drums are really just the best way I know how to communicate the musical ideas I have. I am not particularly attached to it as an instrument as such, but it’s MY instrument, so I have a certain kinship and interest in the drums.

But, I think my general approach is perhaps somewhat anti-drums, or at least how many people see the role of the drummer. But I love it as an instrument and I love that the drums can be approached in so many different ways.
 
Do you feel as though there are at least elements of composition and improvisation which are entirely unique to each? Based on your own work or maybe performances or recordings by other artists, do you feel that there are results which could only have happened through one of them?
 
Yeah, I think the energy involved in improvising is different. A band who improvises something together has a different quality to me than a band that would play that same material composed.

Would I be able to recognise it blind … maybe not? I guess that is what has always interested me as a composer. Creating compositions that encourage not just a ‘non-idiomatic’ improvising to happen, but encourage improvisers to think compositionally.
 
When you're improvising, does it actually feel like you're inventing something on the spot – or are you inventively re-arranging patterns from preparations, practise or previous performances? What balance is there between forgetting and remembering in your work?
 
Well, I don’t believe that we are completely inventing something new on the stop. When I am improvising, I am using the tools that I have learned over many years playing the instrument, as well as the often many years playing with the specific ensemble.

But, it’s not the zooming in on, have I played this combination of things under my hands before(?) but rather how it works with everyone else in the band to make music.
 
Are you acting out parts of your personality in your improvisations which you couldn't or wouldn't through other musical approaches? If so, which are these? What, would you say, are the key ideas behind your approach to improvisation?
 
I wouldn’t say that I am acting about specific parts of my personality as such, but improvising and music in general allows us to express things that are not possible to express in words.
 
In terms of your personal expression and the experience of performance, how does playing solo compare to group improvisations?

I play solo a lot when I am accompanying contemporary dance. While I do enjoy it, nothing beats the interaction with other musicians for me.
 
In your best improvisations, do you feel a strong sense of personal presence or do you (or your ego) “disappear”?  

I think in the best moments, and these don’t happen that often, I am really transported somewhere else … almost not present somehow.
 
In a live situation, decisions between creatives often work without words. From your experience and current projects, what does this process feel like and how does it work?

I think this process gets easier over time of working with the same people. With a band like Led Bib, we had developed a way of communication with each other over 20 years … it was easy to understand where people wanted to go musically.

Likewise with Anthropods, while it’s a younger band, I find the musical communication gets easier with each performance.
 
Stewart Copeland said: “Listening is where the cool stuff comes from. And that listening thing, magically, turns all of your chops into gold.” What do you listen for?
 
I like music that surprises me, keeps me guessing. It’s hard to pinpoint what it is, but I know it when I hear it.
 
There can be surprising moments during improvisations – from one of the performers not playing a single note to another shaking up a quiet section with an outburst of noise. Have you been part of similar situations and how did they impact the performance from your point of view?
 
Of course! And it really depends on the moment, sometimes the littlest things can completely turn an improvisation onto its head, but each situation is different.
 
I have always been fascinated by the many facets of improvisation but sometimes found it hard to follow them as a listener. Do you have some recommendations for “how to listen” in this regard?
 
I think this is probably different for every person, there is an interesting book by John Corbett, A Listeners Guide to Free Improvisation, which is perhaps helpful for some people.

But for me, I think it’s just about exposing yourself to as much music as possible. With time, the stuff that sounded really dense, becomes something different. You can hear through what sounded like noise at first.
 
In a way, improvisations remind us of the transitory nature of life. When an improvisation ends, is it really gone, just like a cup of coffee? Or does it live on in some form?

For me, it’s gone, that’s why I love it!

But, of course sometimes it is preserved in recorded form ...