Name: Ishmael Ensemble
Members: Pete Cunningham, Jake Spurgeon, Rory O'Gorman, Stephen Mullins, Holysseus Fly
Interviewee: Pete Cunningham
Nationality: British
Occupation: Composer, improviser, saxophonist
Current release: Ishmael Ensemble's new album Rituals is out via Severn Songs.

[Read our Holysseus Fly interview]
[Read our Holysseus Fly interview about her voice and singing]
[Read our Ishmael Ensemble interview about collaboration]

If you enjoyed this interview with Ishmael Ensemble and would like to know more about the band's music, visit their official website. They are also on Instagram, Facebook, and twitter.



As far as I know, “Dust” is the first time you've used your own vocals on a Ishmael Ensemble track. What do you think kept you from singing before?

Well there’s actually often been my own vocals hidden in tracks before! But yes, this is certainly the first time I step into the lead role. I’ve always sang outside of Ishmael Ensemble but felt like it was the right time.

I became a father since the last album which I think has stripped my ego of any embarrassment I may have felt before, it’s been a good lesson in the preciousness of life and there being no time like the present to go out and do the things you’ve always wanted.

When I spoke to Holyisseus about her solo work, she told me: “The voice is the most direct way we can communicate!” In a similar vein, many great saxophonists have stated that they want their sax playing to be an extension of their own voice. What's your take on that?

I love the saxophone and yes definitely feel that the tenor sax in particular is such a raw and emotive instrument, I still feel I can express myself the most on sax but I’d like to think I’ll get there with my own voice.

I guess it’s only a matter of time, it kind of comes back to the previous question, why not just get out there and sing? What have I got to lose?

Especially now you're also a vocalist, would you say that your ideal of a group is one where everyone could potentially do anything? How would you describe the current dynamics of the creative process?

Yeah I guess so, this album has very much been about the 5 of us as a band, myself, Holly on vocals and keys, Jake on bass + synths, Mullins on guitar and Rory on drums.

We’ve all had an amazing time over the last few years touring the world and making this album, I feel like we’re just getting started with what the 5 of us can achieve.

That’s not to say we’ll never open the net again to different collaborators. It’s just really fun and exciting at the moment.

You've referred to Rituals as your “most ambitious work” so far. In which way?

The last album was very intimate, whereas the years that followed saw us playing bigger and bigger stages and with that our sound grew too.

We wanted to capture that vastness on the new album which meant diving deep into the sounds and textures that make up our live show and working out how to make something sound equally epic on record.

Since I haven't heard the entire album yet – what does the title refer to?

It’s many things, as mentioned, we’ve all been through lots of changes and major life events over the last few years and I feel it’s our own rituals that keep us grounded and strong through these times.

It’s also a ritual experience getting together and playing music. In a way naming the album after them further solidifies the importances of these often little but very important things we do.

Do you have certain rituals to get you into the right mindset for creating? What role do certain foods or stimulants like coffee, lighting, scents, exercise or reading poetry play?

I wish it were that simple!

For me it’s all about emotion, I think humans only really relate to art in any form if it hits them emotionally, therefore that’s where I try to start creatively, “What’s this song trying to evoke? What do I want this to FEEL like?”


Pete Cunningham of Ishmael Ensemble Interview Image (c) the artist

In our previous interview, you mentioned that we’ve yet to do much “in the room jamming,” unless it’s preparing for live shows. Was there more of that this time around?  

Yeah definitely, that was a very conscious decision on this new record, I feel there’s much more of the other members' personalities shining through on the new songs and that’s because we did a lot of it in the room together.

What, to you, are the pros and cons of “jamming”?

I think there’s a lot more room for those “magic moments” that happen when you’re jamming stuff out. The main thing is making sure everything is recorded because otherwise you’ll miss them!

You recorded Rituals with Ali Staton. What were your considerations for working with him specifically and what was the process like for the new album?  

It felt like the right time for us to step things up production wise. Ali’s also involved in our label Severn Songs and I’m a massive fan of his work so it all just felt right.

He was mostly involved during the end of the process, recording final vocals and mixing. He’s a really patient and open minded guy, happy to try anything and never lets his ego get in the way.

Deron Johnson just told me that he favoured producers "that know how to be there, but not there and make an environment for an artist to be free." What kind of relationship are you looking for in a producer?

Exactly that. I guess I wear both hats as producer and artist and working with Ali has really inspired me and taught me how best to create an environment where the artist feels both confident and free to give their best performances.

It’s all about connection, finding a mutual inspiration or love, breaking down the hierarchy and making a more informal and relaxed space to work in.


Ishmael Ensemble Interview Image by Giulia Spadafora

What are your memories of the process of recording at Real World Studios? What did the studio situation add to the compositions?

It was really fun, we mostly worked in Ali’s room which is one of the outbuildings at Real World occasionally popping into other spaces to record certain parts, but we ate in the main house everyday and just felt right at home.

So many interesting people coming and going, it was all just really inspiring.

I am writing a lot about the Montreux Jazz Festival at the moment and late founder Claude Nobs never liked the title of the event, but ultimately decided that “jazz” would simply be a statement about a certain quality to him. Ishmael Ensemble, too, seems to have a relationship with jazz, but not an obvious one. What does the term jazz mean to you, would you say?

Ha that’s interesting, some of my favourite performances from Montreux are the non “jazz” ones, Talk Talk or Toto to name a couple (that Rosanna version is incredible and a tour bus favourite).

For me jazz is more about a creative philosophy, not being bound to one genre and feeling able to express myself however I musically want, I guess

Jazz in its purest form means freedom, and that’s what i strive for when writing and performing music.